Discussion: Mark vs Scythe

OOC: *sigh* very well... mind you one could simply ask about something you may not understand, before going to the judges. I am not the best writer as you can see, so before you go saying i left out to much detail I would appreciate it if you would ask me to explain a move you may not understand. We are not all professional writers here and my major most definitely is not writing, or anything in English for that matter. Thank you for your understanding. And remember people are here to have fun, not worry themselves with strict rules. But if it is decided by the judges that I must forfeit I will do so without complaint.

(Fancy words don't mean anything to me. It is the manner of detail that is put into a post, and it is in couple places in Scythe's post that are lacking.

As for Scythe's defense against Mark's lightsaber attacks, I can tell what he is intending to do to defend himself, but it is borderline to auto-evading as I remember the rule. Either way, I cannot make a judgement on whether it has enough detail or not, but I would suggest that Scythe improve his detail a little more in the future. I would expect a little more out of 19 year old RPer, but since he said he isn't so great with detail, I can say there it can be put to the side, if Mark gives permission for Scythe to edit his post and clarify what he is doing. I will encourage each and every person to make as much detail as possible so as to avoid confusion.

However, I find his lack of detail of his timing jumping to side and disappearing. While I have no problem with Force Cloak, it is when he did it that is put into question. If he did it after Mark extended his arms, I would say he is in big trouble, regardless of whether or not he used his Cloak because he did nothing to defend himself other to than remove himself from plain sight. As Terand said, Mark would not be able target specific areas, but it wouldn't matter much since he could use the Force to follow his position, but this only go into play if Scythe specified when exactly he moved aside and used Force Cloak. As I understand, even Desra had difficulty making this out. I must say that Mark has the advantage in detail here, so he is in a position to legally manipulate the circumstances a little if he wishes as the basic rules of RPing allow him to.

On the note of Mark using medical terms, I have to say the rules allow him to use such terms because the rules rather favor specific detail. Whether seen fair or not by some, we have to go by the rules on this one and as much as I know Mark has every right to use common knowledge, even medical terms learned in Junior High School. It isn't like he is speaking a different language. Since Scythe is 19 years old, he should at least know what a thorax is. If he doesn't, there is no rule against him looking up these things on wikipedia. It is very easy to find on a search. It isn't a deception to clarify exact targets.

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I believe there was an argument the last time you used this tactic on JediSith and many people disagreed with it. If you wish to continue with that type of tactic, then you may want to expect some disagreement.

It was brought up some time later after he used this tactic, like over a week. At the time he used the tactic, it wasn't questioned, and it shouldn't have been either later on. The arguement was brought up to invalidate Mark's ability to RP. People can disagree if they want, but the rules allow it so complaining is rather moot. In fact, such detail should be encouraged instead of put down.

Please excuse me if I seem rambling a little. I am not well today, but I at least understand the situation.)

((I am not going to make a call on the actual fight, as I'm not an official judge, and I apologize for another OOC post, but I feel I have to clarify something Richter said.

Richter Belmont wrote:

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I believe there was an argument the last time you used this tactic on JediSith and many people disagreed with it. If you wish to continue with that type of tactic, then you may want to expect some disagreement.

It was brought up some time later after he used this tactic, like over a week. At the time he used the tactic, it wasn't questioned, and it shouldn't have been either later on. The arguement was brought up to invalidate Mark's ability to RP. People can disagree if they want, but the rules allow it so complaining is rather moot. In fact, such detail should be encouraged instead of put down.

The argument was NOT brought up in order to invalidate Mark's ability to RP. I know this to be a fact, because I was one of the people debating against you guys in the argument. I didn't have any problem with Mark, nor did I want his RPing ability to be impaired...and even if I did have a problem with him I wouldn't have let it interfere. You know me well enough by now to know that I love sticking my nose in where it's not wanted, but I do have two general rules that I tend to follow.

1. I don't take positions on issues about which I know very little, or if I have only heard one side of the argument. I could go on and on about, say, abortion, but if I were to jump into a debate about the presidential race in France, I would have to do some research.

2. I don't take a position on an issue unless I truly believe that one side has merit over another. This is important because I'm horrendous at playing devil's advocate, but I am okay with that because it keeps me out of debating someone for personal reasons rather than a disagreement with their argument.

If the argument was brought up a while after the tactic was used, it was not because I wouldn't have had a dispute with it when it was first used, but because I wasn't around at the time it happened. As I recall, I was on hiatus for a while before that and had just returned when I saw that. All of the argument happened in the same post as the actual incident, though.

I stated my opinion on the fairness of Mark's tactic last time, and as your opinion on the issue was not changed before, I see no point to reiterating my argument. Suffice it to say that I agree with Terand here for the reasons he stated, among others. Good luck getting this resolved. ))

I am going to end this now! I am leaving the tournament. My interest is lost and my Patience is at its limit. To continue would be no fun. Mark I wish you good luck with the rest of the tournament. If anyone wishes to continue this craptastic argument then you may do so on this post for it is now dead to me. Oh and one last thing, do not judge me... I hate those type of people. Have a nice day.

(This tournament is turning out to be a joke. All these people just forfeiting. Someone want to tell what is going on?)

((Before this goes too far, I'm not trying to make an arguement over the use of the medical terms but how it can confuse the other RPer is where I dislike it. Unless you major in a health field in school, your chances of actually learning the medical terms are low. The part that I see that would confus people is saying the attack will go when you extend the brachial plexus and then use the word arm to launch the attack. To most that can cause a misunderstanding on the attack. All I ask is to use common terms everyone can understand so that both fighters can still have fun with less frustration on looking up the terms.))

(This is considered a heated debate?

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I'm not trying to make an arguement over the use of the medical terms but how it can confuse the other RPer is where I dislike it.

No arguement there.

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Unless you major in a health field in school, your chances of actually learning the medical terms are low.

Actually, I pointed out that some medical terms, such as brachial plexus, can be learned as early as Junior High School. So I disagree that anyone has a low chance of learning medical terms as basic as these.

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The part that I see that would confus people is saying the attack will go when you extend the brachial plexus and then use the word arm to launch the attack. To most that can cause a misunderstanding on the attack

That is where paying attention comes into play.

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All I ask is to use common terms everyone can understand so that both fighters can still have fun with less frustration on looking up the terms.))

I do not see what is wrong with using specific terms and how it can be confusing. Other RP sites I have been to have used terms like that to point out specific target so that their opponent can know what a debilating effect it will have if their opponent doesn't defend it right. I think it just comes down to the rules and tolerance on the use of it. Perhaps a clarification of the rules are in order?

Is a topic where you find it necessary to quote specific parts of someone's reply just to state your own opposite opinion considered a heated debate?

Yes.

Desra wrote:

Is a topic where you find it necessary to quote specific parts of someone's reply just to state your own opposite opinion considered a heated debate?

Yes.

I believe it all depends on one looks at it. It could be also just one particulizing specifics parts to avoid confusion on where opposite opinions are given. Quoting sometimes is quite handy, my good lass.

As for this debate, as I understand, could be sign on how the rules need to be modified. It can take away a lot of fun out of RP fighting when a debate pops up on a particular angle that cannot be agreed on by all parties. I suggest a rule be added, modified, or clarified so it can be depended on and so that no one person can get make their own interpretation on it.

True enough. But Scythe did want me to clear the OOC, and that's what I did. Just moved it here.

Desra wrote:

True enough. But Scythe did want me to clear the OOC, and that's what I did. Just moved it here.

Yes, tis the better reason behind it anyway. Moving posts is such a handy tool, isn't it lass? Much better than deleting it as nonense.

Though Scythe's reply is vague you can still get the jist of the way he implemented his defense. Don't see any problem in it myself.

As for the medical terms thing it's up to anyone to do it, but it just gives an unfair advantage to those that don't in my opinion. You could look it up on Google or Wikipedia and it can be confusing. There's no harm in just saying "arm" or "abdomen" ect.

It won't kill you to use common terms so that everyone can understand. Why do you have to make this difficult?

I for one never really learned the term brachial plexus, and I would have probably had to look it up had I not seen Mark use that tactic before. But seriously, Richter, do you really expect people to remember all of the specific terms they learn in Jr. High/High School? Most people tend to forget such info as useless unless they are going into a scientific or medicinal field.

Anyways, my beef with that style of attack was not really the use of medicinal terms, but the use of medicinal terms in a deliberate attempt to trick the other RPer. But we've been over this before and, as I can see, nothing has changed. I don't see much of a reason to start this debate up all over again.

There was no problem with the way he was implenting his defense against the lightsaber attacks, just the lack of detail concerned me a little. The idea was fine.

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but it just gives an unfair advantage to those that don't in my opinion.

I do agree with that. However, it does not look like Mark intended to use unfair descriptions. He used rather basic knowledge that I think even ye should know at thy age. Such terms are used even basic science classes, and I'm sure I pointed that out, more than once. There is nothing difficult to understand on this.

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There's no harm in just saying "arm" or "abdomen" ect.

Abdomen is a little less basic than arm. Its just like saying "femur bone" compared to "thigh".

I can understand what each person has said and their positions on it. That is why I suggested some rules to be made so as to avoid debates like this in the future.

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It won't kill you to use common terms so that everyone can understand. Why do you have to make this difficult?

I see nothing difficult here. >_> Unless it is difficult for ye, Terand my good lad.

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But seriously, Richter, do you really expect people to remember all of the specific terms they learn in Jr. High/High School?

Is there a reason I should not expect a person to remember what a cranium is? Really, this is getting ridiculous. It seems like ye people are beginning to have a problem with me in defending my position on this, when there is nothing wrong with my position. This is not supposed to be a personal debate.

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but the use of medicinal terms in a deliberate attempt to trick the other RPer.

Yes, I caught that already. But where is the attempt to trick the other RPer? There is nothing there that would trick anyone.

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But we've been over this before and, as I can see, nothing has changed. I don't see much of a reason to start this debate up all over again.

Lancer, I respect ye, but its almost like thou art being a hypocrite and yet defending thy position on being one.

I find no profit in continuing this on my part. I suggest adding a specific on rule on this to avoid further debate.

Richter Belmont wrote:

Is there a reason I should not expect a person to remember what a cranium is? Really, this is getting ridiculous. It seems like ye people are beginning to have a problem with me in defending my position on this, when there is nothing wrong with my position. This is not supposed to be a personal debate.

FIrstly, let me state that that was not intended in any way to be a personal attack, and honestly I don't see how it could be misconstrued as such. I am sorry, however, if it came off that way. I was not referring to terms like "thorax" and "cranium" which are used fairly often, but terms like "brachial plexus" which you will almost never hear outside of a scientific context.

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Yes, I caught that already. But where is the attempt to trick the other RPer? There is nothing there that would trick anyone.

...I would answer this, but like I said I came into here trying to avoid getting into another full-scale debate. I know you'll stick by your position no matter what is said, and so I see no reason to continue here.

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Lancer, I respect ye, but its almost like thou art being a hypocrite and yet defending thy position on being one.

Not trying to start a debate at all, but there are some things that I have a difficult time letting go. I made two observations that I thought were fairly obvious, and then left it at that without making further argument. It appears that you're going to dispute the observations I made regardless, and so this is looking like a debate despite my best efforts. What I was referring to in my previous post was the specific subject of the attack being deceptive.

This is not difficult for me. I merely asked Mark to use common terms to help avoid future confusion if fights and you start saying how everyone learns these medical terms in school and then dragged it on into a debate on the matter. I never learned them in school so I have no idea what most of them are. I just think it'd be more convenient for everyone if common terms were used instead so everyone can understand the other person's post. If a rule was made based on this then it'd be for the use of common terms but I'd rather not take this whole situation that far.

I concede thy efforts, Lancer, so I will not address ye in order further debate towards ye.

Terand, the use of common terms is fine, but whenever I used scientific terms such a brachial plexus or vastus lateralis when I RPed on Gametalk and even here, it wasn't questioned by any person I used such terms against. I think it is just personal preference on thy part, and perhaps a couple other individuals. Sometimes common terms sometimes just don't cut it. Even Desra, when I have talked with her, seemed to understand that. I am sorry for saying this as it may be seem patronizing, but this should not be a problem.

Here I am again. Okay, I am now leaving. I hope this clears everything up.

Richter Belmont wrote:

I concede thy efforts, Lancer, so I will not address ye in order further debate towards ye.

Terand, the use of common terms is fine, but whenever I used scientific terms such a brachial plexus or vastus lateralis when I RPed on Gametalk and even here, it wasn't questioned by any person I used such terms against. I think it is just personal preference on thy part, and perhaps a couple other individuals. Sometimes common terms sometimes just don't cut it. Even Desra, when I have talked with her, seemed to understand that. I am sorry for saying this as it may be seem patronizing, but this should not be a problem.

Here I am again. Okay, I am now leaving. I hope this clears everything up.

I'm just going to ignore that. =o

Unless that particular point is your target of attack, common terms will do just fine. I've never seen anyone else have to refer to their body in medical terms when firing an attack or stating the attack will fire. Unless you have proof or an example then that excuse is pointless.

If some people have understood those terms in the past then good. All I ask is to make things simple since not everyone will understand. Is that such a difficult concept to understand?

It seems there have been a confusion between parties on the lack of clarity on the matter at hand. For my part, I apologize. It seems my illness has clouded my mind severly in one part.

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I've never seen anyone else have to refer to their body in medical terms when firing an attack or stating the attack will fire.

I could find proof if thee wishes it. I'm sure a post by Anarcus is the example I will be using when I find it. But as it looked, it seemed we were debating on whether using medical terms for attacking targets was in quesiton. No matter. I figured it out now.

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If some people have understood those terms in the past then good. All I ask is to make things simple since not everyone will understand.

As I suggested, make a rule on what should be used then, like using an age group or something. Its the rules we have to go by, and not a personal preference, even by a moderator. I understand thy wishes, and I am sure everyone else will, but if ye has something that ye wishes others to follow on RPing ethics, making a rule on it is the best policy for a adminstrator. I say this as a fellow adminstrator from other forums.

Again, I ask pardon for seeming snippy in any way if I have.

No, it wasn't the terms for target that had me mention this but how Mark sent the attack. He mentioned the spears would go when he moved his brachial plexus and then later mentioned that he moved his arms forward, which would send out the attack from what I can tell, at the end of that same post. It's the instance like that one that I find can confuse people that don't know the terms, like me for one. My history and science classes didn't teach these terms. Even looking it up, I only found that it was a nerve in the neck and arm.

As for a rule on age groups or something, why not just ask before the fight if it'd be suitable to use medical terms? I feel a rule enforcing the use of more common terms may be going too far. Even setting age groups as you suggested would would be dividing the RPers apart. In my opinion, that seems unfair to do. We're all here for fun.

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No, it wasn't the terms for target that had me mention this but how Mark sent the attack. He mentioned the spears would go when he moved his brachial plexus and then later mentioned that he moved his arms forward, which would send out the attack from what I can tell, at the end of that same post.

It was rather clever of him to do that. I do see how it could seem unfair, but on a large part all it requires from the other person is attention.

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It's the instance like that one that I find can confuse people that don't know the terms, like me for one.

I do understand how it could, perhaps on a bad day.

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My history and science classes didn't teach these terms. Even looking it up, I only found that it was a nerve in the neck and arm.

From my point of view, at least, this is all the detail one would need to know to understand Mark's post.

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I feel a rule enforcing the use of more common terms may be going too far.

So it seems thou art a little torn on this.

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As for a rule on age groups or something, why not just ask before the fight if it'd be suitable to use medical terms?

Personally, at first glance, I liked the suggestion right away.

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Even setting age groups as you suggested would would be dividing the RPers apart.

If I understand ye, I did not mean it in a way to completely divide them. It was just an suggestion to have veteran RPers consider the abilities of younger RPers. That is all I meant. Once in awhile, lack of clarification is one of my personal mistakes.

Perhaps we can use this debate as a lesson. In the future, things should go more smoothly for RP posts with fighting. That means MORE FUN!