Jedi Sith - Rules

"If you bothered looking at Mark's post compared to mine, we both had a pretty different opinion."
-You. I rest my case on my "A" statement.

Saying "FUCK YOU" is rude. Saying "Wait to try the fucking thing out before opening your mouth," isn't. Of course, you know, I just hang around with people who kill people for a living so I guess being "rude" is a contagous disease.

Your opinion is fine, you seem to think my entire post was dedicated to you. Only one little part of it was, the rest was mostly at Mark, Vegito, and Ritcher.

Again, that was more directed at the other three.

And no, I don't take anyone's advice. If I did, I wouldn't be enlisted in the Marines. If I took other peoples advice, I'd be a snivvling little brat sitting at home all day on the computer hoping for love from Guild Wars and WoW. So, I'm glad I didn't take anyone's advice.

Alright everyone, lets play nice now.

Vegito Rikhard wrote:

I do not believe it is possible to explain my position in very few words. I will have to think about if first. What issue exactly are you thinking about? If its the rules, I agree with Richter that it just needs some fine tuning.

Vegito, its really not that hard to do.

Simply state whether you oppose, agree, or maybe something in between. All I'm looking for is where you stand. What I'm looking for is a very clear source that I can go back and look at how everyone feels on the forum.

These posts can be chaotic, and hard to manage. Its simply for my sake.
But remember... I'm looking for a clear cut and easy to understand proposal on where you stand. You don't have to support it, just tell me where you stand.

.:Mike:. wrote:

The point of that comment was to protray that you all are not the Gods of the forum.

That's what the Typos are for ^_^

Anyway back on topic Ket I don't feel like sending you a PM and I already made my position clear at the start of this post...

Forgotten Jedi wrote:

I have some ideas to present to the entire forum on this matter which you can also think about along with Adroit's ideas.

-All rules will be generalized and major restrictions will be removed. Roleplay guidelines will be molded EXACTLY according to the canon Star Wars universe. Adroit's general idea for the new, free Jedi Sith rules.

-Duel match calls can only be decided on by the party directly involved in it. The loser must wholly accept his/her defeat before it is declared official. This idea is of special importance on my part.

Other ideas to consider:
-Previous power restrictions, such as sacrificing Force Ice for Electric Judgment, are removed. All learned powers can be used without penalty or tribute.
-Powers can be learned by oneself if proper time and practice is used to gain the knowledge to use said powers.
-Mods' and admins' authority will lie in only the forum guidelines (removing SPAM, banning trolls and n00bs) - they will have no special authority in roleplays or roleplaying guidelines. All RP guidelines will henceforth be independent and approved by the forum community.
-Independent history timelines will be established and be an open book for all members to add in the missing gaps at any time.

I think I agree with your first point (or, rather, Ket's) for the most part (if there are rules, they are probably best generalized as much as possible), but I don't really like the second suggestion. I think there has to be some way for outsiders to affect the course of a duel if there's an argument, because otherwise some fights are just never going to be resolved. Worse yet, some people can easily seize upon this rule and exploit it to prevent their own defeat or death, simply by arguing over something and refusing to admit defeat. It wouldn't even have to be a big thing--it could be something completely obvious or trivial, and by that rule they'd get away with it. It's a good idea in theory, but from my experiences I doubt it would work well in practice--it just opens the door for people to get out of fights in a very cheap and cowardly manner.

Your other ideas seem to be very reasonable...I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the last one, though. Is there something particularly wrong with the Archives, or do you just have something different in mind?

Adroit System wrote:

Vegito, its really not that hard to do.

It is when I don't know what you are looking for exactly. I just know the general idea.

Vegito, I just said what I wanted in that last post.

A clear statement on exactly where you stand, in three or less sentences.

Sometimes Vegito needs a broader explanation. He asks to what he needs to explain his position on.

Vegito, thou bloody knucklehead. Just read the mother post and give thy opinion as short as possible, although I think thou already may have done so. Just pm thy opinion to Ket.

white lancer wrote:

I think I agree with your first point (or, rather, Ket's) for the most part (if there are rules, they are probably best generalized as much as possible), but I don't really like the second suggestion. I think there has to be some way for outsiders to affect the course of a duel if there's an argument, because otherwise some fights are just never going to be resolved. Worse yet, some people can easily seize upon this rule and exploit it to prevent their own defeat or death, simply by arguing over something and refusing to admit defeat. It wouldn't even have to be a big thing--it could be something completely obvious or trivial, and by that rule they'd get away with it. It's a good idea in theory, but from my experiences I doubt it would work well in practice--it just opens the door for people to get out of fights in a very cheap and cowardly manner.

Your other ideas seem to be very reasonable...I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the last one, though. Is there something particularly wrong with the Archives, or do you just have something different in mind?

I do realize that there are plenty of ways to take advantage of my second point. However, if we follow Ket's generalization rule, there are two possibilities for calling a fight:

-The involved duelists resolve the call on their own
-The forum makes a call on who won the fight

Of course, you already mentioned the downsides to the first option, so let us review the downsides of the second. Like Mark said, if a biased group gang up against one person they do not like on a fight call, that one person MUST accept defeat, no matter if that group is wrong or not - just like you said, a popularity contest. There are people on this forum that rationalize wrong decisions by the power of numbers.

So, for option one, we can have the people who will not admit a flaw or a logical defeat because they are sore losers, and thus fights could be neverending.
For option two, we can have biased groups make a call against a person they don't like, whether s/he was truly defeated or not.

Anyway you look at it, somebody is going to get the short end of the stick.

As for the Archives, I do have a slight problem with them. As many people here have mentioned, most of the time on this site, the person in charge of editing and adding things to the Archives revolve around their personal triumphs rather than objectively marking down everything that had a significant impact on the forum. For instance, just about every triumph K1ddy/Kensh had is in the archives - because K1ddy was in charge of it at the time. What I am saying is, editing for it should be open to the whole forum. Practically all the important events that happened last year were skipped over, but everything Belial, Terand and Desra happened to have done since this site was started was promptly added to the Archives like there was no tomorrow.

Naturally, I am talking serious edits for major events, not "Sally bought a dress" stuff.

This thread is not for arguing on what to do with the archives guys.

Make another thread to debate archive control.

Actually I think this thread should be about that... We're talking about a 'reform' on the rules, really this should include something about letting everyone add to the archives...

I do get your point about the biased groups, though I would hope that some people would be able to set aside those biases when judging a fight (although I know some never will). I think the best way of dealing with controversies in fights is to select a judge (or 2 or 3) beforehand, one that both parties must agree with, and have that judge step in only if the argument doesn't look like it will be resolved...and they must agree to abide by the decision of the judge. If they do a good job of picking judges, they will be able to make the call in an impartial manner (and thus hopefully make the right call). Of course, a judge wouldn't have to be used in every fight, but it's a good idea to have one ready in case an argument does arise.

An alternate idea would be to have a sort of rotating RP council to judge fights, but I don't think that's the optimal solution and would be difficult to make work right.

The problem I see with picking Judges before a battle is that it could potentially slow an RP down... Especially if its an unplanned battle. I think the best idea would be to have a "council" of judges (maybe 3 at any time). We all vote on three people we think are going to be unbiased in their decisions, and if at any time we feel a judge is being biased then we simply ignore that judges opinion on the matter (and possibly consider replacing them because they've effectively betrayed the trust placed on them)...

Redack wrote:

The problem I see with picking Judges before a battle is that it could potentially slow an RP down... Especially if its an unplanned battle. I think the best idea would be to have a "council" of judges (maybe 3 at any time). We all vote on three people we think are going to be unbiased in their decisions, and if at any time we feel a judge is being biased then we simply ignore that judges opinion on the matter (and possibly consider replacing them because they've effectively betrayed the trust placed on them)...

True, but not if you pick people who are likely to be active. If they disappear anyway, you could always mutually pick someone else even if the fight's already started.

Some of the problems you just mentioned could also come up with an RP judge council - specifically, judges pulling disappearing acts. And of course, anyone could take advantage of the "ignoring the judges opinion" by stating the judges are being biased just because the said accuser is being sore.

However, having so many options open is a good thing. If we actually combined all of these options so that the said duelists could pick and choose whichever of these they want to use, there shouldn't be much complaint on the matter.

I would suggest you guys get together and maybe coming up with a proposal for the entire forum in a seperate thread. Not that its not relevant here, but I don't know how many people on the forum will actually check this and give their opinion/vote.

Alright then....

I'm going to work on creating a list of rules.

I'll make the lit somewhat longer then originally intended, and then you guys as a whole will vote on which rules the keep and which to throw out.